I6 JULY 1940PURANI: Italy has published a long article, it seems, on the New Order in Europe and if England doesn't recognise it, she will have to pay the price. SRI AUROBINDO: Even if she recognises it, she will have to pay. (Laughter) PURANI : It says war on England is to begin in a week. SRI AUROBINDO: A German paper says England won't enjoy another weekend. Hitler will appear in a triumphal march on 27th July for which windows are being hired. SATYENDRA: That means hardly two weeks. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. I don't know how he is going to do it. NIRODBARAN: Italy says her navy will involve the British navy in engagements in the meantime. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Not involve it in engagements but threaten to engage it, so that it may not go elsewhere. If there were actual engagements, there wouldn't be any Italian navy left to keep the British navy engaged. Italy knows this very well. NIRODBARAN: Britain seems to be mediating between Japan and China. SRI AUROBINDO : That is what the Governor of Malaya says. If true, he shouldn't have said it.
After this there was an interval in which Satyendra, Champaklal and Purani were talking among themselves. There was a stain on Satyendra's shirt which brought up the following topic.
CHAMPAKLAL: Paul Richard used to say that a stain on the clothes means a stain on the soul. If he saw any stain on his clothes — a dhobi stain even — he would be very angry and consider it a stain on his soul. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): If it was a dhobi stain, it would be a stain on the washerman's soul. (Laughter) That was one thing Richard believed in — signs, emblems, omens, etc. CHAMPAKLAL: Every time he saw a stain, it would make him angry. SRI AUROBINDO: If he knew the cause of the stain, why should he be angry afterwards? Page -805 SATYENDRA: He did not like the cause to be revealed to him. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: He revealed it himself. If a clothes stain had been a stain on the soul, then no place would have been left on his soul. (Laughter) But the soul has no stain. PURANI: No, that's how I argued with him saying that according to Hindu philosophy the soul is pure and immaculate. It can have no stain. SRI AUROBINDO: He means the vital being, perhaps. PURANI: Yes, he was a very self-contradictory man. At one moment he would say one thing, at the next another.
When others had gone, Purani said Hitler was not getting any inspiration to attack England.
SRI AUROBINDO: No, nobody knows what he has up his sleeve. But I don't think that he can attack. He can attack by air and destroy the industrial centres, which will be something. Britain's air force also has increased but it is still inferior in number. She is inferior in the army also. There are now about three million men in arms. They will be sufficient to deal with Hitler if he makes a land attack, for he can't first land his whole army and armoured units. Most probably he has not worked out his plan yet. PURANI: Or he may be considering various possibilities that may come in his way. SRI AUROBINDO: That doesn't matter to him. He never considers possibilities. If he gets the right inspiration, possibilities don't matter. That is how he goes against all the generals who show him various possibilities that may go against his ideas. All through he has been guided by inspiration and he has gone ahead depending on luck. Regarding France, Poland and all other countries he had set out a plan beforehand and carried it out. But regarding England nobody knows what he has. He has a most original mind, because it is not his own mind. I can understand if he wanted to take Gibraltar first. That wouldn't be difficult; then he could go to Africa and destroy British Empire there which would be a great stroke. Then he can turn towards Asia unless Russia comes in the way. The British island can then remain as it is. Of course it will still have its navy, Germany is a land power. Page -806 EVENINGThe second volume of The Life Divine (in two parts) has come out. The two volumes are very big in size. Sri Aurobindo said they were like two elephants. We were discussing the price (Rs. 16) which seemed too high. Especially Satyendra asked how the money was to be got. He said some people (meaning himself) had deposited the money in advance and had withdrawn it.
SRI AUROBINDO: Well, after all, the publishers try to solve all the problems of existence. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: That they do both internally and externally; they are very sound in every way. I was, in fact, wishing for this book to come out. Nirod has not finished the first volume yet. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): By the time you finish the three volumes, you will become a philosopher, (laughter) NIRODBARAN: I doubt it. SATYENDRA: It doesn't follow. SRI AUROBINDO: No? NIRODBARAN: Some say Part I of Volume II is the most difficult. SRI AUROBINDO: The psychological and metaphysical chapters may be difficult. NIRODBARAN: What has the sale been like in America? SRI AUROBINDO: There were some orders from America, but there are no books available. Biswanath couldn't send any. SATYENDRA: Now they are busy with something else and can't take any interest in The Life Divine. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, busy with bombs.
17 JULY 1940SRI AUROBINDO (smiling and addressing Purani): Hitler's hope of a triumphal march into England is diminishing day by day. PURANI: Yes, there is yet no sign of any preparation to attack. SRI AUROBINDO: I see only two ways possible — either landing troops in spite of the British navy or an attack by air. No other way seems possible. Page -807 NIRODBARAN: Could it not be a bluff, for an attack somewhere else? SRI AUROBINDO: That is another matter. NIRODBARAN: If Gandhi's proposal to Britain to offer only passive resistance had been accepted, perhaps Hitler's hope would have been fulfilled. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. They appreciated his proposal but couldn't consider it. PURANI: Churchill has made a very fine speech. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he was inspired. PURANI: Exact, precise and summing up the situation very well. NIRODBARAN: But he takes good care not to say a word about India — all Europe, the continent, America come into it. Half of the speech was devoted to France. SRI AUROBINDO: He has been always a lover of France. SATYENDRA: To what a pass England has come to declare the battle at Oran a great naval success! SRI AUROBINDO: Success? No, it was to prove the decisiveness of the British and their readiness to fight to the last. Otherwise it was no battle. SATYENDRA: England has now found a leader. If she is defeated it will be due to her position and karma. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. If she had declared Dominion Status to India, then a large part of her karma would have been wiped off. SATYENDRA: That was also what Gandhi's moral support meant. SRI AUROBINDO: No, moral support is quite different. PURANI: The Statesman, whose editor is Moore, has again written for Dominion Status, and in the Hindu also some Briton wrote of it yesterday. SRI AUROBINDO: They are only individuals. If Amery were strong and firm against the Simla attitude, then he could do something. Till now he hasn't said anything against the granting of Dominion Status. PURANI: If English opinion also turned in our favour? SRI AUROBINDO: No, English opinion won't do. It is the opinion of the House of Commons and that of the Conservatives that matter. Some of the Conservatives are in favour of it but it must be the majority and I think the majority doesn't want any drastic change. The majority are under Chamberlain. I am almost sure they Page -808 are standing in the way; otherwise, with the Labour pressure and with the Liberals also joining, something would have been done. Of course they have some trouble over Jinnah. They don't want to create any trouble among the Muslims just now. PURANI: He has been put up by the Government. SRI AUROBINDO: I don't think so. Wherever it suits him, he goes against the Viceroy. I think he has put up himself. SATYENDRA: He has taken up an impossible attitude. There is no chance of any agreement. SRI AUROBINDO: Unless on such terms as the Khilafat and whatever other demands they make. NIRODBARAN: Or Pakistan. India's karma is also standing in the way. So many years' slavery hasn't wiped off the karma. SRI AUROBINDO: Slavery doesn't wipe off the karma. SATYENDRA: Slavery associated with suffering. SRI AUROBINDO: Provided you learn from suffering. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: That is a different matter. PURANI: Jinnah is a sort of dictator. He wants to be obeyed in everything and he would discard no means for his aim. SRI AUROBINDO: In that case it would be bad for Huque and Sikandar. (After a while) If the Hindus consent to accept Jinnah as their Badshah, then he may agree. He will say, "Oh the cause of the Hindus is so dear to my heart!" (Laughter) SATYENDRA: And Jinnah is demanding fifty-fifty representation. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, soon he will say that the pressure exerted by the Hindu fifty is too much for Muslims and will claim another twenty-five out of the fifty. SATYENDRA: How? SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? I think Sir Akbar's son is also standing in the way. He has some influence with the Viceroy. NIRODBARAN: Which son? The one who came here? SRI AUROBINDO: No. This one won't come here any more than he would think of going to hell. (Laughter)
EVENINGSATYENDRA: America is going to follow an independent policy in the East. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. She has no claim to make in China. Page -809 PURANI: It seems according to N.S.N. that on 27th May the Japanese Army was routed by the Chinese. SRI AUROBINDO: Who writes that? PURANI: Some military correspondent. SRI AUROBINDO: With the Chinese? PURANI: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: Can't be believed! The Japanese claim that only eighty thousand Japanese have been killed so far, while the Chinese make it out to be half a million. Evidently neither number is true. Even if the Chinese estimate is true, it doesn't seem to make any difference to the war, and the Chinese are nowhere near driving out the Japanese. War is still going on. The Chinese are braggarts and the Japanese follow a silent policy till the whole thing is done. PURANI: After the resignation of the Japanese Cabinet, it is probable that Prince Konoye will be the Premier. He doesn't know what will be the policy, Fascist or otherwise. If Fascist, the Japanese may line up with the Axis. SRI AUROBINDO: If they do that, they will be bound to the Axis and later on Italy and Germany may want to enter in the East, which the Japanese won't like and which is against their policy. Japan's aim is to turn all the Europeans out of Asia. So if she joins the Axis it will be only to suit her present position and purpose. (After a while) I don't want the Japanese to go down in the fight against the Chinese because they may be needed as a counter-balance against Germany or Russia when, in case England goes down, they try to come to Asia. That is the only chance for India. While they fight each other, India can prepare herself, provided people like Jinnah and Bose are not there. NIRODBARAN: But if England goes down, Japan may herself grab India. SRI AUROBINDO: She may. But out of the three evils, she may be the best and I don't think she will annex India. She may start some Government as in Manchuria. The Chinese can't be relied on to fight against Russia or Germany. Everyone knows that Italy has her eye on Asia Minor and that Germany wants to get into Baghdad. Japan won't like that. She won't like the "barbarians" taking possession of Asia. NIRODBARAN: Roosevelt is standing for election after all. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, of course, he was maneuvering all the time. Page -810 18 JULY 1940SATYENDRA: Tomorrow Germany is going to attack England. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, tomorrow night and finish it in a week. On the 26th the preparation and on the 27th the triumphal entry into London. PURANI: But there is no sign yet anywhere of the attack. Nolini was saying that just as Napoleon was scratching his head at Boulogne thinking about how to invade England, Hitler also must be doing the same. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: During the reign of King Harold, the last invader crossed over to England. NIRODBARAN (after a pause): Huque has paid a high tribute to Bose. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes. With tears in his eyes he had to arrest him. PURANI: What has he said? NIRODBARAN : That Bose is the most lovable person in Bengal politics, reputable, admired, revered, etc. PURANI: He is trying to humour him so as to have a smooth time when he is released. SRI AUROBINDO: I think everything was ready for the monument to be removed when Bose started the agitation. All the parties have agreed, Europeans and others, to have it removed. PURANI: He found an easy way of combining the Hindus and the Muslims. Now the women are also starting Satyagraha on the men. SRI AUROBINDO: On the men? What for? NIRODBARAN: For equal rights. (Laughter) Hamida Begum said this at some conference of women. SRI AUROBINDO: No cooking, no conjugal rights and no housekeeping? Is that the programme? SATYENDRA: That is secret yet. They don't let out their strategic moves. NIRODBARAN: That's all they can do. SRI AUROBINDO: All? That is a great deal. PURANI: Men will start cooking. SRI AUROBINDO: But they may upset the whole thing. An irruption of women suffragists may invade and upset everything. (Laughter) But after they get their rights, they should combine and Page -811 fight Hitler because wherever he goes, he deprives women of their rights. PURANI: The Fascist slogan is back to the family. SRI AUROBINDO: That is the Fascist and Nazi and now the French slogan - Famille. Women will have no other duties except the household one.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO (in a grave tone): We have lost eighty-seven crores of rupees due to the collapse of the Bank of France. (Seeing us all agape) That is why we are dismissing many servants. (Laughter) PURANI : I was wondering why it was eighty-seven. SRI AUROBINDO: And neither has the Bank of France collapsed. Today Dyuman heard people talking in the bazaar — "Ashram, Ashram!" When he enquired what it was about, he came to know that this was the news they were discussing. It is the bazaar radio! SATYENDRA: They have very big ideas about our wealth and think we are very rich. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the underground of our new Secretariat is supposed to contain an immense mass of gold, and formerly some British police thought it was a fortress we were building! 19 JULY 1940PURANI: Hitler has called the Reichstag and is delivering a Speech. SRI AUROBINDO: Instead of a triumphal entry, a triumphal speech? PURANI: He is going to offer peace to Britain. SRI AUROBINDO: He knows Britain won't accept. Why does he offer it? SATYENDRA: To keep a historical record that he was a peace-loving man. (Laughter) He is creating a New World Order and becoming a protector of small nations, taking them under protection without any loss of their honour and prestige. SRI AUROBINDO: They are rather being kicked into the New World Order. Page -812 SATYENDRA: Anyhow our India is joining the international federation. The Women's Mission is going to China. The Nehru family will be represented. SRI AUROBINDO: Without the Nehru family there can't be anything international. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: Vijayalakshmi is the President. SRI AUROBINDO: They can send Nehru as the head of the delegation. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: No, Begum Hamida won't like a mere man being put at the head of the ladies. SRI AUROBINDO: Which one was Hamida in yesterday's photo? SATYENDRA: The one on the right. On the left was Amrita Kaur, She doesn't look so terrible. SRI AUROBINDO: As in her speech? No, she looks quite matronly and amiable. Whose Begum is she? Or who is her Nawab? PURANI: I think an I.C.S. man called Hamid. SRI AUROBINDO: And she is Hamida? Just as Hindu names have Dev and Devi. Then followed talk about censorship, for all our letters were now being censored. SRI AUROBINDO: Even insured letters are being censored. It is better that it is being done by some special body instead of by the police. By the way, is Jaswant in prison now? PURANI: Yes, in B class, very happy, gets books to read and is carefully looked after, he writes. SRI AUROBINDO: By the Imperial Government? (Laughter) PURANI: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: Then they haven't started killing the communists yet? It is lucky he is in prison, otherwise he would have sent all sorts of communist pamphlets here. For how long has he been sentenced? PURANI: It is under the Defence of India Act. Simply interned. SRI AUROBINDO: That is for the duration of the war? That means from five months to fifty years. (Laughter) Some people say that the war will last fifty years. PURANI: Then Churchill and Hitler will be no more. Page -813 SRI AUROBINDO: No, it will become a normal condition of life. From this occasional bombing and no serious damage, it is not unnatural to suppose that the war will last fifty years. PURANI: I don't think the present R. A. F. bombing of Germany will affect it materially very much. SRI AUROBINDO: If it can destroy the industrial cities then it will.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: The original date to attack England seems to have been last Monday. So they have changed the date now. PURANI: Oh, was the talk in Turkey about that? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Hitler's dates regarding France and other countries proved to be true. PURANI: That shows they were all planned in cooperation with the people inside. SATYENDRA: There is a Peshawar prophecy that Hitler's decline will begin from 27th July and that he will try to commit suicide on the 9th of August. SRI AUROBINDO: For failing to enter into England in triumphal march? SATYENDRA: But such an easy misfortune is not for him; he won't die like that. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh! NIRODBARAN: We will be quite satisfied with that. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, we are not vindictive. Is that the war contribution from Peshawar? SATYENDRA: Yes. NIRODBARAN: Franco has declared his rights over Gibraltar. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, this is the first time he has spoken about it publicly. (Then addressing Purani) You have seen some Japanese commercial man's proposal? PURANI: No. SRI AUROBINDO: He has gone to Europe, to Italy, for some mission or trade purpose. He is said to be an important man. He says Germany and Italy should make an axis with Japan. They will be exhausted after the war and lose all spring for action. Japan and these countries may help one another by trade agreements between East and West. Here the implication seems to be that Japan would Page -814 represent the East and that the whole East would be left under Japanese influence. After some time Purani brought in the subject of art. PURANI: Sammer has a queer idea. He says that nowhere in Europe and India was there any popular art. Only in Russia has it come now. Communism has brought in popular art, he says. SRI AUROBINDO: That is the stock-in-trade argument of all communists. PURANI: I was staggered. He has no knowledge of Indian history. I told him that even today there is a village in Pondicherry where pottery is done and the village is known for it. These carvings on the wooden seat¹ of the Mother which is such a fine piece of art were done by an ordinary workman. The Mother was pleased with it. 20 JULY 1940PURANI: Hitler has simply poured abuse on England in his speech and said the usual things. If England doesn't accept peace, she will be destroyed. SRI AUROBINDO: How? He talks only of air attack. With aeroplanes he can, destroy a good deal no doubt, but the same can be done to Germany. SATYENDRA: He didn't want to attack the British Empire, but now he will if the British don't accept peace. He is a man who wants to live in peace and has no territorial ambition! SRI AUROBINDO: No, he didn't want anything outside Germany. Now there is no democracy left in Europe except in Yugoslavia. Only in Asia does democracy remain, Persia being the true democracy. SATYENDRA: Turkey? SRI AUROBINDO: Turkey doesn't claim to be democratic. If England didn't stand in the way Hitler would settle first with Russia, then proceed to Asia and then to India. ¹The carved divan now kept on the northern side of the upstairs meditation hall. On 21 February 1928, the Mother and Sri Aurobindo both sat on this seat and gave darshan. Page -815 SATYENDRA: Russia may not like Japan's collaboration with the Axis. SRI AUROBINDO: Privately she won't. Japan wants to make a non-aggression pact with Russia as Germany did. But she has nothing to offer Russia while Germany gave Russia a free hand in the Baltic and half of Poland.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: I have read Hitler's speech. In many respects this man is a mountebank and yet he has become so successful. Of course, it is not his success, but that of the force behind him. NIRODBARAN: Some people in the Ashram find his speech full of reason, and according to them everything he has said is true. SRI AUROBINDO: Everything true? Don't they read the papers? Don't they see his speech is full of misstatements and misrepresentations? NIRODBARAN: It is true in the sense that whatever he has prophesied he has carried out. Look at Poland and Norway. And since he has succeeded everywhere else, he will succeed also against England. England will make peace. SRI AUROBINDO: That is another matter. What about his lies about the British Expeditionary Force, which he claims he has destroyed? NIRODBARAN: These people seem to believe Hitler more than others. SRI AUROBINDO: And these people pretend to do Yoga? The French themselves have said that the B.E.F. was rescued - the majority of it — and people who have returned from Flanders have written to us about the evacuation. If this Asuric influence acting through Hitler is being cast on the Ashram too, it is dangerous. PURANI: What about his seeking friendship with Britain or his love of peace? Are they all true? And because he has succeeded so far, will he succeed always? Is he omnipotent? Greater than the Divine? SRI AUROBINDO: Omnipotent and omniveridical? Then, as he says himself, has Providence guided him and given him sucess? I have not seen any other person who has followed the Asura with such extraordinary fidelity. Three things of the Asura he adopts strictly: first, if you go on telling lies long enough with assurance, people will believe you; second, you must adopt treachery and Page -816 appeal to the basest passions of the people; third, care only for success without regard for truth. There have been men who have done that with some pretence of truth. But Hitler speaks openly of his method of falsehood and yet people believe him. NIRODBARAN: Except for the air attack, what else can Hitler do against England and how far will the air attack be successful? SRI AUROBINDO: I don't know. Aeroplanes can be tremendously destructive and if the industrial areas are destroyed, it will be a great blow. 25 JULY 1940For four days there was practically no talk. Then Bhaskar's radio news said that Germany was making intense preparations to attack England. SRI AUROBINDO: Bhaskar doesn't give the source of his news. He says that such intense preparations are going on that the universe is moving towards destruction. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: The universe? Nehru also speaks in terms of planets. The Sunday Times has given the news that somebody in America has discovered some submarines which can be made into tanks. There is a humorous story along with this news. SRI AUROBINDO: That may be Germany's new weapon to attack England. SATYENDRA: Is that an accomplished fact? SRI AUROBINDO: It is an America-and-Sunday Times-accomplished fact. Here Sri Aurobindo related the humorous episode of the tank which was much enjoyed by all. PURANI (after some time, smilingly): Have you read in the Sunday Hindu the article saying that there are Hindu tribes in Arabia? SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes. It is like the Tamil Christ and the Madrasi Virgin Mary. SATYENDRA: What is that? SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, you don't know? A Tamil scholar discovered that Christ was a Tamil belonging to Madras and he found all the equivalent Tamil names for Christ, Mary and eyen the streets, Page -817 PURANI: Here also this man says that Araba equals Arava, Saracen equals Surasen and Ansari equals Anusari. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: That was the fashion at one time. It was Colonel Todd, I think, who said that Krishna was Hercules who is also called Heracles. He derived the Greek name from Harikul (Laughter)
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: It is now known what Bhaskar's source was for the report of the coming German attack on England. A detailed document was found in the pocket of an American reporter who had died in France. It told of the German plan to attack England from Belgian and French ports, supported by aeroplanes, smoke screens, etc. The Germans will land at various places. In that case they may have some chance of success. PURANI: Yes. Otherwise I don't see how it is possible. So they are putting Daladier and others on trial? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is Laval acting out of revenge. Poor Delvos is also to be tried. Laval was ousted from politics in all the ministries. His photo in the paper shows the face of a criminal. The paper says he began as an errand boy and ended as a millionaire. PURANI: This action of his may also be to satisfy Hitler. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and out of revenge and fear of these people as well. 26 JULY 1940SATYENDRA: The Bengal Government is removing the Holwell monument after all. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Huque didn't stand up in his dignity then. Huque said that unless Satyagraha is stopped he won't do anything. NIRODBARAN: This Islamia College incident has contributed to it, perhaps. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. NIRODBARAN: Bose has got some success. Page -818 SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes, it was all pre-arranged, only he hurried up the process of removal. 27 JULY 1940PURANI: America has agreed to supply three thousand planes per month. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. In that case England will very soon match Germany in air-strength. NIRODBARAN: Amery says the Indian situation is not serious. SRI AUROBINDO: Because there is no chance of civil disobedience, perhaps. And Gandhi is now preparing the world for non-violence. PURANI: But nobody accepts it. NIRODBARAN: De Gaulle has advised passive resistance to the French people. C. R. says England may be thinking that if we were independent we wouldn't help her. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, they have a fear that we may do just as Ireland is doing. PURANI : They say there is a difference of opinion among Hitler's generals regarding invasion. SRI AUROBINDO: May be only a story. He may be trying to settle the Balkan problem first. But if it is true, it is remarkable that Keitel is against invasion. He has always been for attacking England. He is a general in name only; he knows nothing about war, he is only Hitler's mouthpiece.
EVENINGPURANI: Nolini was saying that he found this book of modern poetry very difficult to understand. How many people will read it? SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): Not worth reading. I have read Eliot's Hippopotamus; it is amusing. Nowadays one reads poetry not to enjoy oneself or for pleasure, but as a duty or a task. All that these Moderns are doing is to take the most commonplace ideas and try to express them in poetry. Whatever is beautiful is to them romantic and whatever is grand is rhetoric. You should take only commonplace, mean things, express them in mean, dirty language, with very little or no rhythm — that is the recipe for modem poetry. Page -819 PURANI : The same thing is happening in art. SRI AUROBINDO: It is an age of decadence like Roman decadence, only in a different way. That took a thousand years to start. Now also it may take a thousand years. Hitler's threatened millennium of the New Order will be like this, probably. 28 JULY 1940Mussolini, on his fifty-seventh birthday, has given an interview to press reporters. He bared his upper body and said, "Am I sick? Am I old?" and then galloped around on a horse. NIRODBARAN: Mussolini has been dramatic. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes. PURANI: But what about his fleet? It doesn't seem to vend out. SRI AUROBINDO: No, for fear of becoming sick. (Laughter) According to a press report the size of the British Army in Africa is not sufficient. If true, it should be reinforced; otherwise if the Germans take Alexandria and the rest of Egypt, it will be bad for England. Alexandria is like Gibraltar. I suppose England has concentrated all her forces in England itself. PURANI: Yes, the French collapse may have changed this plan. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Have you read about America's army strength in New Statesman and Nation? It is lamentable. SATYENDRA: Yes, what has she been doing all these years? SRI AUROBINDO: No wonder she is against sending any expeditionary force to Europe. SATYENDRA: Now Japan is also threatening her. SRI AUROBINDO: America has her navy to deal with Japan. Hitler had a navy, then after defeating England he would have gone straight for America. The present state of America's army would have been a great opportunity for him. Page -820 29 JULY 1940Germany has sunk a French refugee ship. SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): You have seen how Hitler says Churchill has sunk the French ship. PURANI: Does he say that? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. The Daily Herald has a report, perhaps true, about Germany inventing the story that England is going to invade France and Germany will come in as a saviour. (Laughter) PURANI: Hitler wants all the world to believe this! NIRODBARAN: Probably it is meant for home consumption. PURANI : He is making Brittany an autonomous state, it appears. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. If reports are true, he intends to take back Alsace-Lorraine and make a kingdom of Flanders with Northern France included in it. Perhaps Italy will take Savoy, Nice and Corsica. NIRODBARAN: Mussolini is stretching his arm to Palestine too. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and he wants to drive out the Jews en masse. SATYENDRA: Poor Jews! They have been cursed through the ages, driven out from everywhere NIRODBARAN: Why is it so? SRI AUROBINDO: Firstly, they have always tried to keep their individuality and, secondly, everywhere, by their cleverness, they have come to the top in all the professions and have created envy among others. 30 JULY 1940SRI AUROBINDO (starting the talk): So Hitler has changed the date to September 15th. PURANI: Yes. He doesn't know what to do and the Balkan problem is also engaging him. SRI AUROBINDO: He must have relied on the French fleet surrendering to him. If he had attacked at once there might have been some chance of success. PURANI : Yes, time has been on England's side. She has prepared herself and learnt her lessons. If the French had not surrendered, Page -821 they could very well have carried on the war from their colonies. They still had a sufficiently big army and their navy was substantial. They could have at least taken hold of the Italian possessions in Africa. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and it would have been a great gain. EVENINGPURANI: There is a rumour in the Cercle¹ that Mandel is going to be shot. SRI AUROBINDO: Ah! If they begin shooting people, how will it all end? But on what charge? PURANI: On the charge of entering into some secret agreement with England. SRI AUROBINDO: But England was not an enemy. If it was for overthrowing the Pétain Government I could understand. No, it must be out of revenge. During his ministership he imprisoned many Fascists. PURANI: In this way the revolution may be quicker. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but people everywhere are tame and timid now. The Socialists and Democrats have no ardour like the Nazis and Communists. The Poles seem to be the only brave people: they are still continuing a guerilla war; they have not yet caved in. The Finns were also doing well but as soon as defeat began they caved in. SATYENDRA: Where is Colonel Beck? SRI AUROBINDO: He is in Rumania. Rumania's Government does not allow him to go to England. It is just as well, because he would clash with the Polish Government there and make a lot of mistakes. NIRODBARAN: Rajagopalachari says the English are a desirable lot. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes, he has seen what others are like. NIRODBARAN: And he says England gives way to public pressure. SRI AUROBINDO: That is true. ¹The French club in Pondicherry. Page -822 31 JULY 1940The Hindu published the information that the Mother and Sri Aurobindo have given Rs. 1000 to the Allied war fund. SATYENDRA: It is good Jaswant is in prison. Otherwise he would have sent another letter. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes. PURANI: I had a letter from his brother. He is very happy in jail, he says. Put in B class. SSRI AUROBINDO: Like Oswald Mosley? PURANI: They had fixed his marriage but due to his imprisonment they had to drop it. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? They couldn't arrange it in jail? PURANI: Russia has demanded the return of her trucks from Rumania. SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): Yes. She seems to be looking for an excuse for a quarrel. PURANI: Rumania has given no reply and is perhaps turning to Hitler. SRI AUROBINDO: Hitler will say he is not going to fight Russia over some trucks. He will advise her to settle the affair. NIRODBARAN: As in the case of Hungary, Bulgaria, etc.? If Rumania concedes to all of them, very little of her will remain. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and she will be so light that she won't weigh on the Axis. PURANI: Mandel, Reynaud, Gamelin, etc. are going to be tried, it seems. SRI AUROBINDO: Gamelin for insufficient preparation. In that case Pétain is also to blame. He was Minister of Defence for so many years and he has done nothing. Mandel and others have been betrayed by Nogues. It seems he invited them to Africa to fight from there against Germany and then betrayed them to Pétain . It was very unwise of them to have gone there. This De Gaulle is a remarkable man. He foresaw all these things and knew what was in store for him and left for England beforehand. SRI AUROBINDO (after some time): This book on modern poetry by F. R. Leavis is very heavy reading. PURANI : Nolini also said that. He couldn't make anything out of it. The author says that the reading public of poetry is getting very small. Page -823 SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and he says it is a very good thing, (Laughter) PURANI: But the number of poets is increasing, he says, and many have talents. But the talent depends on what use society will make of it. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Obviously! PURANI: You have seen at the end of the book what he says about the sale of poetry books? SRI AUROBINDO: No. PURANI: He has quoted a publisher's statement - very revealing. The publisher says that out of many books published, some -about one dozen — brought twelve pounds altogether from the sale and, as for the rest, he lost almost double the sum. SRI AUROBINDO: You know what an English publisher said when my poems were presented to him by somebody for publication? He said they were very striking but nobody would buy them, as no one read poetry now. He added, "Let the poet write some prose first and make a name and then his poetry may sell." NIRODBARAN: No wonder people won't read poetry after what the Modernists have done with it. PURANI: It is the same thing in painting too. I remember how Francois and Agnes used to cudgel their brains to find out the significance of some bizarre, grotesque pictures. SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps it was meant only as a joke and no meaning was there. You know the origin of Cubism? Mother used to go among the artists. One day she found that two artists as a joke had made some queer figures but people began to find great originality in them and praise them. Then they took it up seriously. There was a postman who painted a green cow grazing on red grass. People began to remark: "How original! How striking!" and now he is an outstanding painter. I forget his name. (Laughter) EVENINGNIRODBARAN: This arrest of a well-known Englishman in Japan on an espionage charge looks fishy. SRI AUROBINDO: Very fishy. The Japanese are showing themselves as masters and want others to submit. For espionage the British give regular training; they don't employ well-known people in that business. Page -824 NIRODBARAN: And the death of Knox also is not very convincing. How could he get through the resistance of the gendarmes? As Mother said, the Japanese themselves may have got rid of him to cover up some crime of their own. SSRI AUROBINDO: No, the manner of death is not convincing. The Japanese are becoming bullies now. It is the new spirit of the Nazis and Fascists they have got from the West. NIRODBARAN: But I don't think an Englishman would have done what they say. SRI AUROBINDO: No, not a high-class Englishman. The English and Americans are very haughty and disdainful; they haven't understood the Japanese as, for instance, people like Lafcadio Hearn did. And they are now being paid back. NIRODBARAN: The English in India have, of course, done worse things. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, in the colonies they are quite different. All other Powers except the French treat their subject races alike. NIRODBARAN: But just when England is involved Japan is taking these steps. SRI AUROBINDO: People show themselves in their true colours in times of danger. PURANI (after some time): Have you seen the Masnavi by Jalaluddin Rumi? A professor from Hyderabad reviewing your Life Divine says that all you've said in it about evolution and descent has already been said by Rumi. SRI AUROBINDO: I have glanced at the Masnavi. Yes, Rumi does speak of evolution but it is an individual evolution. Surprisingly he does not mention rebirth. If he admits individual evolution he has to admit rebirth. An individual can't evolve in one birth only. PURANI: Sufis do admit rebirth, I think, in a way. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, do they? Rumi speaks of transmigration which is quite a different matter - taking different bodies, animals, birds, etc. Transmigration would bar entrance to other worlds. It would be an immediate process. Page -825 |